WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:14.400 Good, so it's already the evening of the first day of our system, about 6pm and now we 00:14.400 --> 00:21.360 hear for something that's, I've basically done two years ago already, so it's mostly 00:21.360 --> 00:28.400 update. It's about the Linux phone app ecosystem, so it's not really super technical, 00:28.400 --> 00:35.520 so I don't want to go into Conrad Reversor, or how to enable hardware on boot, you know, 00:35.520 --> 00:46.080 you boot and bottom, it's just basic apps and stuff. Good, so what do we have in the agenda? 00:46.800 --> 00:54.560 First of all, about me, then goals and what science scope, apps on SurfaceOS, apps on Ubuntu 00:54.640 --> 01:03.120 touch, apps on Plasma Mobile and Flash on Mobile, and then a call to action, because I mean, 01:03.120 --> 01:19.440 why not. And then hopefully room for Q&A. So about me, I'm Peter, I'm 40 years old, and I do 01:19.440 --> 01:29.680 stupid stuff like a while ago, I did some videos, I had this badly hand drawn logo on Windows 01:29.680 --> 01:34.800 phones, so mostly pine front videos and so on. And also, because I like the open internet, 01:34.800 --> 01:40.720 I'm not just YouTube, I have a blog, and there I collect basically the weekly news, so what 01:40.800 --> 01:49.920 happened across all these mentioned things, trying my best, never catching all of it, but yeah, 01:50.640 --> 01:57.840 at least I'm pretty consistent, so I've been doing this since mid 2020, and I've skipped a few 01:57.840 --> 02:05.680 weeks, because but never more than one, right? So at worst or two gaps, a gap of two weeks. 02:06.080 --> 02:13.040 Then I've got a project that's really a time sink, it's called the F1 F1 arc, to basically 02:13.040 --> 02:20.080 which the last part of what are the accounts for the OS's will be based on that data, 02:21.520 --> 02:25.920 and then I've been also contributing to mobile comfort Firefox, which has been great fun, 02:26.800 --> 02:33.360 and today I've been talking to people about Linux Mobile, and will be there tomorrow too, 02:33.360 --> 02:42.080 and UG level two, it may be, went through there when you came here. Good, gold for this talk. 02:43.120 --> 02:50.480 Well, let's have a look at the changes for the past few years. Let's see where there is 02:50.480 --> 02:56.720 collaboration already happening, so where apps work on multiple OS's and not just on one, 02:57.600 --> 03:06.320 because, I mean, why do it twice, basically, and then also trying to encourage more collaboration 03:06.320 --> 03:10.880 and showing some avenues for that, and then those boilers, that's the context, and later. 03:11.840 --> 03:15.760 So, not in scope, but we're just figuring out who are these projects. We had to talk about 03:15.760 --> 03:21.680 the nearer today, it's totally different thing. Memo Lester is all the end goal, the 03:22.640 --> 03:27.760 Nemo Mobile is also still kicking, and Essex and Mal is kind of in scope, but sorry, 03:27.760 --> 03:32.880 I'm not going to talk about CLIO to terminal UI apps. Sorry, no. 03:36.000 --> 03:42.480 Yeah, so in 2024, I did a very similar talk, and big then I had the time to do some assumptions, 03:43.040 --> 03:47.040 and here they are, so I thought, well, open standards, so I don't know, email, XMPP, 03:47.040 --> 03:52.560 that's totally impermanible, we have that, right, and it's solid. And then of course, 03:52.560 --> 03:58.320 services for the API API access, that should exist too, right? No, why not? And then, 03:58.320 --> 04:05.680 also, is that do have an API for your unofficial whatnot, that should also be doable, 04:05.680 --> 04:11.600 and then trying to out, no, no. I mean, this is free software, so people see something, 04:11.600 --> 04:15.920 have something, do something, and then something is there, and then maybe it takes off, 04:15.920 --> 04:20.480 and maybe it gets abandoned, or it becomes a thing like my stupid blog post, that I started 04:20.480 --> 04:25.920 in 2020, but having the goal of, well, I was actually super proud when I had continued that 04:25.920 --> 04:32.320 to the end of the year, right, like doing this weekly, weekly, and now that's, I'm not six years later, 04:32.320 --> 04:39.200 I'm still doing it. So, same stuff there, and then, these assumptions, looking at the 04:39.200 --> 04:42.320 API, because there's some still going through, so, no need for different assumptions here. 04:43.360 --> 04:49.680 Let's start with, say, for sure, with the in-depth look, and, say, for sure, as, yeah, it has this 04:49.680 --> 04:56.560 one history. It was really, really technically impressive in 2013, but he's seeing, using, then, 04:56.560 --> 05:05.280 really used technology, like valent, system to E, BTRF, you know, we may or may not use all of these 05:05.360 --> 05:11.440 today, you know, machines, mobile or not, but big then it was really, really, really new. 05:12.320 --> 05:18.800 And then, yeah, it's still going, basically, it's November, big then, they basically didn't sell 05:18.800 --> 05:26.000 devices, but you could buy, licensed for some Sony devices, and these days, they make devices, 05:26.000 --> 05:32.320 again, signature as a famous for the Android app support, which is basically a pretty neat integration 05:32.320 --> 05:40.400 to run all those great Android apps, right? Or also apps from Google Play, and they have three 05:40.400 --> 05:45.600 sources for native apps, and that's what this is about, right? So, let's start with the yellow score, 05:45.600 --> 05:50.400 it requires a really elegant, and it has no for pay apps, despite being back by all, 05:50.960 --> 05:57.760 has no equipment first, so I didn't count then, and it didn't count now. And, yeah, 05:57.840 --> 06:02.160 here's a little bit of highlighting one specialty about San Francisco, it's pulled down many 06:03.360 --> 06:10.480 that they do, then open repost on that, it's more, yeah, some kind of open source, community resource, 06:11.600 --> 06:15.520 people upload the apps, you can access the mobile phone with the storeman front end, 06:16.240 --> 06:21.440 again, no payment methods or something, and it also lists apps rather projects like those 06:21.520 --> 06:28.080 Nokia operating systems, I've mentioned initially, and looking at the count, so that's not just 06:28.080 --> 06:33.120 apps that also pack into this, like FFM pack and stuff, I think they're doing pretty well, 06:34.080 --> 06:41.120 that's notable increase, that's not just circumstances, so yeah, looking good, 06:42.080 --> 06:47.440 and this is what the storeman front end looks like, then charm, which is, was it back then, 06:47.440 --> 06:59.440 really new in 2024? These days, yeah, it's still the news one of these, and it didn't grow as much 06:59.440 --> 07:07.280 as open repost on that. So, well, I would, back then, have expected it to maybe replace open repost, 07:07.280 --> 07:14.320 but that apparently did definitely not happen. But the cool thing about promise, it also includes 07:14.720 --> 07:21.280 Kirigami apps, so these days, Q5, Kirigami, so you can, basically use, for example, if you 07:21.280 --> 07:27.280 don't have to be with the Gecko browser on surface rest, can use an older version of Kirigami 07:27.280 --> 07:33.520 angle first, and run that, but also, are there a few other Kirigami apps? 07:35.840 --> 07:40.640 Yeah, oh well, I would say it's looking really good, there is some technical depth, 07:40.960 --> 07:48.800 and there's also an unfortunate circumstance that you can't basically run anything GDK based, 07:48.800 --> 07:54.800 which makes it really difficult. Like, you would think, hey, it's just a screen, so let me run 07:54.800 --> 07:59.040 more well-confident, which there's some Firefox, which just have to package it, but you can't, 07:59.040 --> 08:04.560 because that would, in both some kind of stuff, that wouldn't work on that competitor. 08:04.960 --> 08:11.760 Good, next up, you won't touch Mark Shuttle, that's Dream Shild. 08:13.760 --> 08:21.440 Yeah, it was in vision in 2011, and it came with a bunch of technologies that 08:22.160 --> 08:29.760 canonical invented, like, mirror, absurd, unity aid, and they wanted to bring them at those 08:29.840 --> 08:35.600 everywhere, and they actually released the device, or multiple device, the first one in 2015, 08:35.600 --> 08:40.720 but then two years later, canonical had basically dropped that plan and went back to GNOME, 08:41.680 --> 08:46.960 and the UV ports project that have previously just ported some devices, took over. 08:49.280 --> 08:52.960 And they really have done an amazing job since. 08:53.040 --> 09:03.440 They renamed Unit8 to make it more equitable and avoid the confusion with the game engine, 09:04.160 --> 09:10.960 and other things called unity. Unity appears to be very popular, so it's commonly used name, 09:11.920 --> 09:17.440 and then near support railing, and all of that rest, they are using system D, they have 09:17.440 --> 09:23.680 very early to run some Android apps, and they also are the OGs of imutable, basically, 09:23.680 --> 09:30.800 so non-vitable hardware, they have some sandboxing, which is not always count great. 09:32.800 --> 09:40.080 But yeah, let's try to get to some counts here. This is the open store, it's basically separate 09:40.080 --> 09:45.920 project from Ubiquartz, and they have these, but they are the pre-assault app store that comes to 09:46.880 --> 09:52.320 and in 2024, we had separate counts, I'm not going through the numbers to try to make a metal note. 09:52.960 --> 09:58.560 Those, and these days, there's just a unified count, so I can't really compare this, but at least 09:58.560 --> 10:07.280 they total numbers are increasing, and if you, they, so the Ubiquartz team does some bi-weekly 10:07.600 --> 10:17.600 video, Q&A is on YouTube, and they always mention you apps, so stuff is happening, they are very 10:17.600 --> 10:26.000 much alive. Now with Ubiquartz being based on Ubuntu 4, Ubuntu 2444, they've really 10:27.360 --> 10:35.360 caught up with the LTS, and I think they are going to continue that route, and given that they were 10:35.360 --> 10:44.160 still on 16 or 4, in 2023 or 2023, that's an amazing feed, that had just left eight years 10:44.880 --> 10:51.440 and basically bail as time. Also, there are other basic install apps, 10:51.440 --> 10:58.240 limiting content, which used to be not useful at all, or tablets, these days, it could be more useful, 10:59.120 --> 11:06.800 and then there are snaps, which is another canonical technology, and it's natively supported now, 11:06.800 --> 11:12.960 but the issue is that you have to bring your own environment, basically, or you have to define 11:12.960 --> 11:18.160 certain scaling factors, because this is a fushet snap, and you can see everything is tiny, 11:18.160 --> 11:25.200 and yeah, you can't use it like that, you have to somehow make it find the way to scale with that screen. 11:25.520 --> 11:35.120 Yeah, and let's have one of too many tensions, maybe, and that is Lumiri on distros, 11:35.680 --> 11:42.480 so Lumiri this day, so you need to use the UI for Ubuntu touch, it's available in more and more 11:42.480 --> 11:51.440 distros, obviously in Debian, because Debian is in a way Ubuntu's upstream, or whatever, you 11:51.760 --> 11:57.520 don't know if it's not a clear option with relationship, but they do put stuff in Debian to let 11:57.520 --> 12:05.520 it in Ubuntu, right? Then in Elpine, it's available these days, so you can use Lumiri on post-micro, 12:05.520 --> 12:13.920 as if you're so inclined. I've seen the package in NYXOS, and that also includes the core apps, 12:14.880 --> 12:19.520 but as you can see there, they may not work with your shell, like if you use fush, 12:19.600 --> 12:27.280 plus a mobile mobile, which has scroll, where that flick up from the bottom is basically entering 12:27.280 --> 12:32.640 the multitasking menu, you're going to have a hard time switching tabs in off-process, so 12:33.280 --> 12:37.520 there are these avenues where you're like, oh, I can just install that and use it, but no, 12:38.080 --> 12:46.320 not always, right? And the paradigms don't, then the paradigms collide basically your circle. 12:46.720 --> 12:57.840 And again, I think they have done impressive work in the past two years, and they are now 12:57.840 --> 13:04.880 technically six, and there's one thing that I really would wish to see elsewhere, and that's this 13:06.160 --> 13:12.000 little donation hack that comes up when you try to install an app in Ubuntu Touch, and the 13:12.080 --> 13:17.840 developers put in some information that makes basically a link, a donate link, and 13:19.120 --> 13:23.760 I think this is pretty nice to encourage people to give something back, right? 13:26.080 --> 13:31.440 Now, the stuff that I know most about, I have actually somewhat competent, 13:32.560 --> 13:38.400 plus my mobile, no mobile first. If you've been here in this room, I think you know, when this 13:38.400 --> 13:45.760 all maybe started around 2020, it became more of a thing, and then Fostem was, 13:46.880 --> 13:53.360 yeah, online only for a while, and since then we've had this room at every Fostem, and 13:54.640 --> 14:00.240 there's multiple UI, multiple distributions quite confusing, and worst of all there's no proper 14:00.240 --> 14:07.840 app so solution is for a long time, and so back in 2020 I went switching the internet and I found this 14:07.920 --> 14:15.600 thing, and I contributed, and then I contributed too much, and I know it's a maintainer a little bit, 14:15.600 --> 14:22.720 and I forked it, I extended it, and then eventually extended it too much, too much content, 14:22.720 --> 14:27.760 basically, so it wouldn't load any more on a Python, it was too slow, it would really be like 14:27.760 --> 14:34.720 a minute, and Firefox would probably probably have a little warning. Yeah, and then I turned that into 14:34.720 --> 14:41.600 this steaming mess, let's find it a rock, a nice website, but yeah, don't look under the sheets. 14:43.680 --> 14:49.600 You should not, you should not base an app directory on a static site generating internet for blocks, 14:51.200 --> 15:00.800 but yeah, that's just advice, but hey, it's listing 760 apps, most of those, not all, but over 15:00.960 --> 15:09.840 700 of those, I've evaluated at least once, so that's been a bit of work, that's why I'm 15:09.840 --> 15:16.080 really happy that there's a competitor these days, and that's the flat-up mobile collection, 15:17.600 --> 15:24.320 which is based on something that's now the most boring part, maybe XML metadata, 15:24.720 --> 15:38.080 so to really, it's a thing, right, it's a standard, and it makes listings and gnomes offer 15:38.080 --> 15:45.200 in such look nice, and you can take a form for it as F3 just so, and that's also these days, 15:45.200 --> 15:51.440 this year, now usable through an amazing GTK for a little bit of IDAP called Bazaar, 15:52.000 --> 15:57.920 which is basically a flat-up, but as an app on your phone, and you can go through that 15:57.920 --> 16:08.800 on the go-section and just browse things, and yeah, so that's pretty cool. 16:10.880 --> 16:18.720 Now, how are these worlds developing, so there's a one hand, we just heard about gnomes, 16:18.720 --> 16:27.920 and the gnomes mobile, gnomes mobile too, you know, that, that nice UI, and then there's also 16:27.920 --> 16:38.000 Fosh, and for those, we have native UI components in Liberator and Lepandy, Lepandy being the 16:38.000 --> 16:45.440 older one, that's why the contest is also decreasing here, but as you can see, and this time, this 16:45.520 --> 16:52.080 number of 350 apps, it's actually only the apps that I've rated as, those really fit the screen 16:52.080 --> 16:59.360 and work with reasonably well on mobile, back then I think in 2024 it just took the total count, 17:00.000 --> 17:07.360 so that's like doubled, and that's really, really cool, of course, not all of these apps are still 17:07.520 --> 17:12.560 as maintained, maybe some apps were maintained in 2024, and these days, 17:14.400 --> 17:21.520 quick and stumble with, you know, but that's just normal, all right, so this is really 17:22.880 --> 17:32.720 making me very happy, and Katie, this cover doesn't yet indicate productivity, but also on the 17:32.720 --> 17:41.120 plasma mobile side, the counts have been, I think, increasing at a normal level, and honestly, 17:41.120 --> 17:51.360 I may have missed some apps here, so the actual count may be higher, and also on plasma mobile, 17:51.360 --> 17:56.800 you can also use those GTK apps with, well, they look different, they feel slightly different, 17:57.760 --> 18:04.560 so it's not that much of an issue, it's just like when you install some, I don't know, 18:04.560 --> 18:13.920 Katie, PDF reader, and you don't mess up. Of course, there's more, so this is taking right from the 18:13.920 --> 18:23.600 site, I don't know, the Android translation layer may be a small highlight, I think it was mentioned 18:23.680 --> 18:30.160 in the new Pyproch earlier, but then we also see stuff like lipcosmic, which is what 18:30.160 --> 18:36.400 system 76 are using for the new Cosmic Desktop, some of those apps are also useful on phones, 18:39.280 --> 18:44.960 and of course, there's also more programming languages used, this is, I don't think, so that's 18:44.960 --> 18:52.560 surprising, right? So, yeah, if you only know objects, if see, you can still make an app for Linux 18:52.640 --> 19:04.800 mobile, and then to go back to that area of collaboration, just two examples here, 19:04.800 --> 19:12.400 shining examples in my opinion, one is Pyomat, which I think originates on safest choice and has been 19:12.400 --> 19:20.800 then first ported to Ubuntu Touch, and then later on, it's available in some distributions, 19:20.800 --> 19:30.000 but also on flat-up again, and you can just use it to, yeah, for navigation and mapping, and 19:30.880 --> 19:36.400 it's pretty cool to have one code base across all these very different, 19:36.400 --> 19:51.520 or seemingly different mobile operating systems that all run Linux, and then to maybe touch more 19:51.520 --> 20:01.760 relevant or a platform for the actual market share, there's flutter apps, and FluffyShirt is a 20:01.840 --> 20:14.880 matrix client that really works on everything, apparently, but of course, certainly not on safe 20:14.880 --> 20:22.880 choice and Ubuntu Touch, yeah, maybe that's something to pick up from this talk, and of course, 20:22.960 --> 20:31.280 there's more examples, the slides are available, you can click the links, if you want to, 20:31.280 --> 20:36.720 community favorites, I had done this last time, and it was, I think, a big mistake, and I've 20:37.520 --> 20:44.800 threatened, that's why I repeated it, and if you look at that top-right corner, 20:45.200 --> 20:55.120 totally obvious, candidates, if you ask on the Fediverse, Fediverse clients, but yeah, so all of these 20:55.120 --> 21:03.600 apps, I've been using once or twice, multiple times, and I can, we've come at all of them, so I decided 21:03.600 --> 21:12.400 to include these. Now, there are also common gaps, and those are not as great, right, or not 21:12.400 --> 21:20.400 nice to have, and yeah, like, that stuff that we can't just do as a community, where we need others, 21:22.000 --> 21:27.840 and first of all, mine share, and then their corporation to make that happen, and their obvious 21:27.840 --> 21:34.320 candidates, like government idea apps, banking apps, I mean banking apps are really the most obvious, 21:34.320 --> 21:39.600 one, like, if you're ever at a stand and throwing some mobile annex, you're always going to get 21:39.760 --> 21:46.240 asked about banking apps, 50 times a day, and less obvious ones, but really life, 21:47.760 --> 21:53.120 it's really important for life, like, if you've got a hard problem more, you're a diabetic, 21:53.120 --> 21:58.560 you don't want to mess with your own code, connecting to that Bluetooth device, you don't want to 21:58.560 --> 22:06.480 do some off by one error and die, and then you have this stuff also, right, Instagram, 22:06.480 --> 22:11.520 TikTok, we don't have those, if you want mass adoption, we probably unfortunately need it, 22:12.560 --> 22:19.120 and then there's other governments that are easier to address, not going through the 22:19.120 --> 22:27.360 to leave some time at the end, and have this call to action, so yeah, so I've posted this before 22:27.360 --> 22:32.000 on a little red blog post, but yeah, I'm going to retire from my project because of 22:32.880 --> 22:40.240 happy personal news, I don't know if you see that as a hat of a new forming human, and I'm 22:44.080 --> 22:50.240 I'm really happy and scared and everything, I mean, I'm 40, but it's my first kid, so, 22:52.640 --> 22:59.680 and therefore I actually need people maybe to pick that mess up that I've created there, 23:00.560 --> 23:06.800 and then of course there's general stuff like metadata improvements that I already talked to 23:06.800 --> 23:14.480 these are two relevant issues, basically, and this is a way to find that out, if you are 23:14.480 --> 23:18.480 developing, you're not even targeting mobile, maybe use that length app, and then you can, 23:19.040 --> 23:25.360 you know what the value is that you can put in that one field, if people copy past metadata, 23:25.360 --> 23:32.880 it's normal, it's human, but it's calling progress done right, and if you decide to contribute, 23:33.600 --> 23:40.320 please just read that thing up there, always be nice, and stuff, that's the most important one of these, 23:41.520 --> 23:47.040 and with that, thank you, and I hope we still have room for one or two questions. 23:55.440 --> 24:03.440 Yes? 24:03.440 --> 24:09.440 Something you mentioned is all of the parts of the works for different Linux operations, 24:09.440 --> 24:16.560 you see any authority that's all of these software will pass away, and of course, in any 24:16.880 --> 24:19.280 way. 24:19.280 --> 24:24.320 Well, so the question is, I mentioned all the upstairs, and do I see a possibility that 24:24.320 --> 24:32.560 apps will work across the board on all the mobile Linuxes? Now, there are, if they are not 24:32.560 --> 24:40.160 required to feel native, and if, like in safest choice, some things, just like the computer, 24:40.160 --> 24:43.840 just needs an update, right, if you want to run GTK apps there, otherwise it's not going to happen, 24:44.800 --> 24:51.680 but in theory, yeah, you can totally package some GTK app for, you bunch of touch, 24:51.680 --> 24:56.880 you can package, you bunch of touch apps as a flat pack, and then there's a lot of possibilities. 24:59.520 --> 25:00.240 Yeah? 25:00.240 --> 25:07.280 So, when I've found a lot of touch community, one blocker is in the rear wheel, so I don't have the 25:08.240 --> 25:14.720 and we don't have XTG just, of course, support, yes, which blocks, for example, running GTK application 25:14.720 --> 25:18.960 sensor, and we're working on that, I don't know where there's part of the user today. 25:20.000 --> 25:26.560 Thank you, that was more of a statement, but there's upstream work on upstream XTG portal support, 25:26.560 --> 25:33.200 necessary for keyboard and GTK support, Lumiri, but it's great, thank you. 25:34.160 --> 25:35.360 Good afternoon. 25:36.480 --> 25:39.840 Time's up, thank you, you can find each and all.